The Warpzone BBS Chat Night TONIGHT!

Thanks to everyone that came! Was a GREAT turn out! I think we had 8 at
once at the peak! Look forward to doing it again next week!!

Thanks,

Tom

Post by Tom
Tonight at 7pm Mountain Time (9PM Eastern) is Chat Night at The
Warpzone BBS!
telnet://warpzone.thebbs.org
See you there!
Also check out the new message bases while you're there!
Thanks,
Tom

Andrew Alexander

2005-04-12 04:59:40 UTC

LOL

For more then just BBS chat by yourself. Every Thursday and Saturday
night at 9PM central time the 5 BBSes of the port zero network use that
forgotten feature of CNet called Joinlink. That's right, 5 joinlinked
systems for one big chat Thursday and Saturday nights at 9PM CST. If you
aren't near the central time zone like most of the BBSes are you are
more then welcome to come at 9pm your local time to find people from
your area. Get a blast from the past and join us this week!

For more information read the news story posted here:

http://cnetbbs.net/article.pl?sid=05/04/06/0051243&mode=thread

Drew

--------------------------
Window of Illusion Web Site - http://www.woibbs.org
Window of Illusion BBS - telnet://woibbs.org
CNet BBS Web Site - http://www.cnetbbs.net

Tom

2005-04-14 04:36:59 UTC

I dont understand your post. First you begin with LOL, but yet we had
a great chat night with 8 people connected and we all had a lot of fun.

Secondly, I don't understand why you are plugging your chat in response
to mine. Most moderated forums don't allow this and it's kinda rude.

I was considering joining Joinlink but am reconsidering it if this is
what I have to look forward to.

Thanks,

Tom

Post by Andrew Alexander
LOL
For more then just BBS chat by yourself. Every Thursday and Saturday
night at 9PM central time the 5 BBSes of the port zero network use that
forgotten feature of CNet called Joinlink. That's right, 5 joinlinked
systems for one big chat Thursday and Saturday nights at 9PM CST. If you
aren't near the central time zone like most of the BBSes are you are
more then welcome to come at 9pm your local time to find people from
your area. Get a blast from the past and join us this week!
http://cnetbbs.net/article.pl?sid=05/04/06/0051243&mode=thread
Drew
--------------------------
Window of Illusion Web Site - http://www.woibbs.org
Window of Illusion BBS - telnet://woibbs.org
CNet BBS Web Site - http://www.cnetbbs.net

Andrew Alexander

2005-04-14 06:53:46 UTC

Hey jackass! Who posted what when? I posted about the port zero network
long before you. After I did you posted a similar concept for weekly
chat on your system. So you were way rude first dip wad.

Oh no... I am sorry you were gonna join. I didn't mean to offend you,
please reconsider. I so very much want WorfZone BBS to be our 6th
system. Oh please mercy on the Port Zero Network oh great sysop Tom.
What will the founders of the great joinlink think if I lose a system,
cus a sysop was annoyed at my advertisement. You think I give a shit?

Drew

Post by Tom
I dont understand your post. First you begin with LOL, but yet we had
a great chat night with 8 people connected and we all had a lot of fun.
Secondly, I don't understand why you are plugging your chat in response
to mine. Most moderated forums don't allow this and it's kinda rude.
I was considering joining Joinlink but am reconsidering it if this is
what I have to look forward to.
Thanks,
Tom

--------------------------
Window of Illusion Web Site - http://www.woibbs.org
Window of Illusion BBS - telnet://woibbs.org
CNet BBS Web Site - http://www.cnetbbs.net

d***@propg.com

2005-04-14 09:05:43 UTC

Post by Andrew Alexander
Hey jackass! Who posted what when? I posted about the port zero network
long before you. After I did you posted a similar concept for weekly
chat on your system. So you were way rude first dip wad.
Oh no... I am sorry you were gonna join. I didn't mean to offend you,
please reconsider. I so very much want WorfZone BBS to be our 6th
system. Oh please mercy on the Port Zero Network oh great sysop Tom.
What will the founders of the great joinlink think if I lose a

system,

Post by Andrew Alexander
cus a sysop was annoyed at my advertisement. You think I give a shit?

Andrew,
Why do you feel the need to continually slam Tom? You tried it in
another post of his and now here. I don't see what you have against
this guy. He is just a Sysop trying to run CNet and promote his BBS.
I see nothing wrong with that.

Don't try to distort the truth here (my pet peeve). Tom did not post
about a weekly chat on his system. He posted about a chat night. I
saw nothing about a weekly chat sessions. Even if he had, why in the
world do you think that you have an exclusive right to have weekly chat
sessions? I hate to tell you this, but I doubt that was and Andrew
original. I would venture there are other BBSs over the years that
have had the same. In fact, it would not surprise me if there were
other systems somewhere in the world chatting right now on their
"Weekly Chat Night".

As far as who was rude first, I would have to say that Andrew hold that
title in that category. There is nothing rude about promoting your
system. However, your response to that was rude. But lets go back a
bit further. Looking through your posts in this same group under
"Telnet Troubles" I believe that you were more then rude to Tom. You
personally attacked him!

What is up with the name-calling? How childish can we be? Come on,
can't we just help each other out in the group rather then getting into
all the knock-down-drag out fights and calling people names. BTW I
can't recall Tom ever calling you a name!

You have a good thing with Port Zero (5 BBS systems join linked is
cool), but blasting Tom here for no apparent reason will not help Port
Zero's cause. Unless that is the purpose of Port Zero. You did a
grave injustice to Port Zero by your posting.

Tom,
Congratulations on a job well done. I think for your first chat night
8 people is a great start. Keep up the good work and you will have a
1st rate BBS before you know it!

I agree with you Tom, there is no reason to be associated with Port
Zero if that is an example of how they act. I would not want my system
associated with them either.

D5

user

2005-04-16 00:22:55 UTC

Post by d***@propg.com
Don't try to distort the truth here (my pet peeve). Tom did not post
about a weekly chat on his system. He posted about a chat night. I
saw nothing about a weekly chat sessions.

You are splitting hairs. I'm sure Tom intendend for his "chat night" to be
weekly, and in fact in his next post he says he is looking forward to doing
it again next week

Black Phatom did do a "chat night" post first and it could look like Tom was
jmping on the band wagon. Sure there is no patent on the idea but for Tom
to be upset that Black Phantom advertised his chat night again is silly
since anyone can advertise anytime they like, and in this case Black Phantom
was first.

The use of "LOL" was rude, and it was not the height of tact to advertise as
a reply to Tom's post, but to go out of your way to slam Black Phantom is
silly, as it is for you to condem all the BBSes on the chat night just based
on one sysop's actions.

ElectroPig

2005-04-17 03:51:15 UTC

You are splitting hairs. I'm sure Tom intendend for his "chat night" to be
weekly, and in fact in his next post he says he is looking forward to doing
it again next week

Tom may very well have had the thought of doing it again "at some time in
the future", ut as I see it, he's just gotten his system up and running, and
needs to test things out...as would ANY SYSOP.

As for "splitting hairs", it seems that you read more into a post than as
stated--a common thing in newsgroups, in my experience--and your post serves
only to support an attacker against someone who had never done any wrong to
him.

Post by user
Black Phatom did do a "chat night" post first and it could look like Tom was
jmping on the band wagon. Sure there is no patent on the idea but for Tom
to be upset that Black Phantom advertised his chat night again is silly
since anyone can advertise anytime they like, and in this case Black Phantom
was first.

So the fact that "any other person" posted their system first gives them
the automat right to hack anyone else's attempts to do the same thing on
THEIR SYSTEM? I don't recall there being any reason why only ONE PERSON in
a given newsgroup, or running a given piece of software, is allowed to
promote their system..but noone else is permitted to do so?

I feel that any SYSOP who wishes to post any information about his BBS in
this newsgroup should not only be allowed to do so without being attacked,
but they should be encouraged to do so at every possible
opportunity...PROVIDED THEY DO NOT DO SO PURELY TO DAMAGE SOMEONE ELSE'S
SYSTEM OR IT'S INDEPENDENTLY POSTED PROMOTIONS OR ACTIVITIES.

As far as who was first is immaterial. The fact is that Tom made his post
completely independently of Black Phantom's post--he made a point NOT walk
over the post--Black Phantom (as you note), on the other hand, deliberately
posted a response to someone else's post with the sole intention of
negativitity towards him, and his system. If Black Phantom's system was
that impressive, it would draw people away by it's very nature, as it "would
be better" and he wouldn't feel the need to compete for "chatters" as it
were.

Post by user
The use of "LOL" was rude, and it was not the height of tact to advertise as
a reply to Tom's post, but to go out of your way to slam Black Phantom is
silly, as it is for you to condem all the BBSes on the chat night just based
on one sysop's actions.

One thing that you forget to note is that the responses in this thread
were NOT posted by "Black Phantom" but by "Andrew Alexander...which leads me
to the thought that this "anonymous poster" has something to hide...as well
as not having his facts straight...I quite realize that "Black Phantom" and
"Andrew Alexander" are one and the same--many people know this, I'm
sure--but having seen the original response as made by AA, and NOT by his
"alter-ego", it piques my interest that this response is posted anonymously.
What do YOU have to hide?

Long and short of it? Tom did nothing wrong, and was attacked out of
spite for someone who apparently feels threatened by the competition.
Anyone who had stuck up for Tom has done a favour both for Tom, AND for the
newsgroup as a whole.

Tom: More power to ya!

user

2005-04-17 07:06:37 UTC

You are splitting hairs. I'm sure Tom intendend for his "chat night" to

Post by user
weekly, and in fact in his next post he says he is looking forward to

doing

Post by user
it again next week

Tom may very well have had the thought of doing it again "at some time in
the future", ut as I see it, he's just gotten his system up and running, and
needs to test things out...as would ANY SYSOP.
As for "splitting hairs", it seems that you read more into a post than as
stated--a common thing in newsgroups, in my experience--and your post serves
only to support an attacker against someone who had never done any wrong to
him.

I read what was written, nothing more.
I just want to get to the TRUTH, as d5 claimed to want. I have no intention
of defending Black Phantom, but two wrongs do not make a right. I can see
how Black Phantom thought Tom was jumping on his idea since Tom's post was
fairly similar and fairly soon after Black Phantom's Black Phantom did NOT
handle it well, however.

Post by ElectroPig
One thing that you forget to note is that the responses in this thread
were NOT posted by "Black Phantom" but by "Andrew Alexander...which leads me
to the thought that this "anonymous poster" has something to hide...as well
as not having his facts straight...I quite realize that "Black Phantom" and
"Andrew Alexander" are one and the same--many people know this, I'm
sure--but having seen the original response as made by AA, and NOT by his
"alter-ego", it piques my interest that this response is posted anonymously.
What do YOU have to hide?

Trust me, I am a different person. I doubt Andrew is ever shy to express
himself as himself. I want to hide because just by seeming to defend Black
Phantom people will automatically hate me.

Post by ElectroPig
Long and short of it? Tom did nothing wrong, and was attacked out of
spite for someone who apparently feels threatened by the competition.
Anyone who had stuck up for Tom has done a favour both for Tom, AND for the
newsgroup as a whole.
Tom: More power to ya!

Just sticking up for someone to get back at someone else is unfair.

btw I've logged on the BBS joinlink at times and sometimes it is very full.
Black Phantom should not worry, and I hope no one here condems the BBSes on
that link just due to one outburst by one sysop.

user

2005-04-17 07:38:36 UTC

For the record - I wish Tom, Black Phantom, and ANY sysop good luck on their
BBS!

I wish they would all support each other

ElectroPig

2005-04-17 08:00:34 UTC

Post by user
For the record - I wish Tom, Black Phantom, and ANY sysop good luck on their
BBS!
I wish they would all support each other

And THAT is exactly the point!!! d;^D

ElectroPig

2005-04-17 07:57:28 UTC

Post by user
You are splitting hairs. I'm sure Tom intendend for his "chat night" to

Post by user
weekly, and in fact in his next post he says he is looking forward to

doing

Post by user
it again next week

Tom may very well have had the thought of doing it again "at some time

Post by ElectroPig
the future", ut as I see it, he's just gotten his system up and running,

and

Post by ElectroPig
needs to test things out...as would ANY SYSOP.
As for "splitting hairs", it seems that you read more into a post than as
stated--a common thing in newsgroups, in my experience--and your post serves
only to support an attacker against someone who had never done any wrong to
him.

I read what was written, nothing more.

Well, I see that TOm just mad eanother post, and he specified a specific
NIGHT this time. He has not posted about anything "weekly", which would
imply any schedule beyond that single evening. Additional evening chats
are, as you say, quite possible, and in fact very likely, I'm sure.

Post by user
I just want to get to the TRUTH, as d5 claimed to want. I have no intention
of defending Black Phantom, but two wrongs do not make a right. I can see
how Black Phantom thought Tom was jumping on his idea since Tom's post was
fairly similar and fairly soon after Black Phantom's Black Phantom did NOT
handle it well, however.

"Fairly similar" completely separate posts and "jumping on someone else's
post" are completely different things. I did find it cute how he changed
the subject so that every subsequent response--regardless of who posted it
or for what reason--would promote HIS chat, over the intention of the
original poster's.

As far as Tom's "jumping on <Andrew's> idea", nothing could be further
from the truth! JoinLink has been around for more than a decade within
CNet/PRO, and interuser chat has been around even before that! How is this
suddenly "Andrew's Idea?" I've chatted on BBSs as far back as 1985...that's
20 years ago! Seems to me if that's >>NOT<< a new idea!

Post by ElectroPig
One thing that you forget to note is that the responses in this thread
were NOT posted by "Black Phantom" but by "Andrew Alexander...which

leads

Post by user
me

Post by ElectroPig
to the thought that this "anonymous poster" has something to hide...as

well

Post by ElectroPig
as not having his facts straight...I quite realize that "Black Phantom"

and

Post by ElectroPig
"Andrew Alexander" are one and the same--many people know this, I'm
sure--but having seen the original response as made by AA, and NOT by his
"alter-ego", it piques my interest that this response is posted

anonymously.

Post by ElectroPig
What do YOU have to hide?

Trust me, I am a different person. I doubt Andrew is ever shy to express
himself as himself. I want to hide because just by seeming to defend Black
Phantom people will automatically hate me.

I think that as long as you present yourself without hiding, people will
have no reason to hate you if you're honest with them. Personally, I was
only irked that you seemed to be supporting one person in your geographical
area (New Jersey) ruining someone else's posting.

SYSOPs are all supposed to be going towards the same goals...not attacking
eachother when anyone else running the same software--with the same
capabilities--actually attempts to USE the same software and functions ton
their own computers!

Tom made it very clear when he said he wouldn't bother joining the "Port
Zero" network because of AA's actions against him, and to be blunt, not only
do I not blame the guy, but I support him completely! Any damage that the
Port Zero network has--or will--sustain because of one person's arrogance is
a bad thing for all of the other SYSOPs in that group, and for that, I feel
sorry for them, as their systems may be hurt by one person.

I do hope that the rest of the P0N doesn't suffer because of it, in any
case. It's an excellent idea to have a regular mass joinlink, IMHO! It
sstill shouldn't be used as an excuse to bash other SYSOPs who aren't in
that specific clique.

the

Post by ElectroPig
newsgroup as a whole.
Tom: More power to ya!

Just sticking up for someone to get back at someone else is unfair.

Who did that? I don't recall anyone "getting back" at anyone?

Post by user
btw I've logged on the BBS joinlink at times and sometimes it is very full.
Black Phantom should not worry, and I hope no one here condems the BBSes on
that link just due to one outburst by one sysop.

Agreed. I'm sure the rest of the affected SYSOPs will deal with
(BP||AA)'s actions privately, and I hope that it doesn't happen again, for
everyone's sake. Consistently bad PR doesn't help anyone...and so far, AA's
done more harm to things than anything. Hopefully, that will also
change...sooner, rather than later.

Ray A. Akey

2005-04-17 17:38:08 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
Consistently bad PR doesn't help anyone

Hyprocritical coming from you, but definitely true otherwise.

LOL

--
Ray A. Akey
http://www.codemain.com/gallery2

user

2005-04-17 18:14:37 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
As far as Tom's "jumping on <Andrew's> idea", nothing could be further
from the truth! JoinLink has been around for more than a decade within
CNet/PRO, and interuser chat has been around even before that! How is this
suddenly "Andrew's Idea?" I've chatted on BBSs as far back as

1985...that's

Post by ElectroPig
20 years ago! Seems to me if that's >>NOT<< a new idea!

Ok, let us be fair. Of course the idea of chatting is not new, nor is the
idea of a chat night. What I am saying is that Tom has had his BBS running
for a bit now and he did not post his chat night idea until right after
Black Phantom did. I am just saying that could have ticked off Black
Phantom.

Post by ElectroPig
I think that as long as you present yourself without hiding, people will
have no reason to hate you if you're honest with them. Personally, I was
only irked that you seemed to be supporting one person in your

geographical

Post by ElectroPig
area (New Jersey) ruining someone else's posting.

First I am not even on the East Coast, I am in the Midwest. Second I am not
defending anyone, I am just trying to explain why Black Phantom was upset
and did what he did, but no one seems to understand.

Post by ElectroPig
Tom made it very clear when he said he wouldn't bother joining the "Port
Zero" network because of AA's actions against him, and to be blunt, not only
do I not blame the guy, but I support him completely! Any damage that the
Port Zero network has--or will--sustain because of one person's arrogance is
a bad thing for all of the other SYSOPs in that group, and for that, I feel
sorry for them, as their systems may be hurt by one person.

Are you saying that what Black Phantom did taints the network forever? Do
you hate him that much?

Post by ElectroPig
I do hope that the rest of the P0N doesn't suffer because of it, in any
case. It's an excellent idea to have a regular mass joinlink, IMHO! It
sstill shouldn't be used as an excuse to bash other SYSOPs who aren't in
that specific clique.

the

Post by ElectroPig
newsgroup as a whole.
Tom: More power to ya!

Just sticking up for someone to get back at someone else is unfair.

Who did that? I don't recall anyone "getting back" at anyone?

Well you have been bashing Black Phantom and the network in every post

Post by user
btw I've logged on the BBS joinlink at times and sometimes it is very

full.

Post by user
Black Phantom should not worry, and I hope no one here condems the BBSes

Post by user
that link just due to one outburst by one sysop.

Ah, I see that this is a long running thing. It seemed strange that one bad
post from Black Phantom caused such an outcry against him and the network.

ElectroPig

2005-04-17 21:55:12 UTC

this

Post by ElectroPig
suddenly "Andrew's Idea?" I've chatted on BBSs as far back as

1985...that's

Post by ElectroPig
20 years ago! Seems to me if that's >>NOT<< a new idea!

Well, he should be adult enough to know that other people running BBSes
also have the "license given right" to not only USE, but to PROMOTE their
systems as well. Anyone who runs a given piece of software is allowed to do
anything and everything possible with and for that system.

The fact that "someone else posted first" does not negate the fact that
when TOm made HIS post, it was separate and distinct, and offered ZERO
references--neither positive or negative--towards ANYONE ELSE'S SYSTEM.
BP/AA deliberately attacked Tom, even though Tom did NOTHING to him.

geographical

Post by ElectroPig
area (New Jersey) ruining someone else's posting.

First I am not even on the East Coast, I am in the Midwest.

My fault...read the dns wrong, I guess. Got the country right, though!
;)

Post by ElectroPig
Second I am not
defending anyone, I am just trying to explain why Black Phantom was upset
and did what he did, but no one seems to understand.

I understand perfectly well. AA does seem to think that he's "the only
game in town" and doesn't appreciate it whenever anyone else proves
otherwise...or in this case, offers some competition from outside.

If he can't handle competition without attacking new (renewed, actually)
SYSOPs who wish to promote their systems, perhaps it's time he shut it down
and got into a deeper niche-market, connectivity-wise? I'm sure that the
rest of the Port Zero SYSOPs could, and would, keep their systems organised
as they are now.

Post by ElectroPig
Tom made it very clear when he said he wouldn't bother joining the "Port
Zero" network because of AA's actions against him, and to be blunt, not

only

Post by ElectroPig
do I not blame the guy, but I support him completely! Any damage that the
Port Zero network has--or will--sustain because of one person's

arrogance

Post by ElectroPig
is

Post by ElectroPig
a bad thing for all of the other SYSOPs in that group, and for that, I

feel

Post by ElectroPig
sorry for them, as their systems may be hurt by one person.

Are you saying that what Black Phantom did taints the network forever? Do
you hate him that much?

I believe that if he continues on the same path he has apparrently chosen,
his actions may cause more and more damage to the network, yes. If this is
the last time we see anything of this nature from him, then no. So I gues
my answer on that point would be "I dunno." Or perhaps "We'll see."

As for hating the guy, I don't. I very highly disapprove if his actions
in attacking Tom, an I hope it doesn't happen again, but no, I don't hate
the guy at all...although the reverse can surely be said about his feelings
towards me, given what we've seen in the NG thus far. ;)

Post by user
Just sticking up for someone to get back at someone else is unfair.

Who did that? I don't recall anyone "getting back" at anyone?

Well you have been bashing Black Phantom and the network in every post

You were the one supoprting him, and I was attempting to clarify the
facts. I am also NOT the only one who has attempted to make the same
points. If you consider being truthful and trying to help someone who got
attacked for no reason as "getting back" at the person who did them wrong,
then that's entirely your prerogative...even though the facts don't support
that theory.

Post by user
btw I've logged on the BBS joinlink at times and sometimes it is very

full.

Post by user
Black Phantom should not worry, and I hope no one here condems the BBSes

Post by user
that link just due to one outburst by one sysop.

AA's

Post by ElectroPig
done more harm to things than anything. Hopefully, that will also
change...sooner, rather than later.

Ah, I see that this is a long running thing. It seemed strange that one bad
post from Black Phantom caused such an outcry against him and the network.

Not so. BP/AA has made MANY abrasive posts...this is nothing new for him
in this newsgroup at all. Hopefully, if he wises up a bit, it won't affect
the P0N in the future. I certainly hope not, as that one person's actions
CAN taint the rest of the group.

Taken from another perspective, I have never met ANY of the other SYSOPs
in the Port Zero network, so I can't honestly say that they don't agree with
his actions, but since THEY have made no such negative posts against people
for no purpose, I am operating under the assumption that they do not, and
would not participate in such things, as they have sense enough to know what
the results could be towards them in the end.

d***@propg.com

2005-04-17 07:46:20 UTC

Post by user
You are splitting hairs. I'm sure Tom intendend for his "chat night" to be
weekly, and in fact in his next post he says he is looking forward to doing
it again next week

Ok, lets go on your assumption that Tom did intend to have weekly chat
nights. That still does not justify his comments or reaction to Tom.
Lets look at what Andrew did:

#1, Andrew posted an advertisement for his chat night against the very
advertisement Tom had for his. Some would call this over-posting!
It's inconsiderate and rude anyway you look at it.

#3, Andrew starts off with "LOL" in what would appear to make fun of
Tom's achievements.

#4, Andrew implies that if you call Tom's system on their chat night
that you would not have anyone to chat with.

#5, Andrew starts off another post by calling Tom a "jackass" as well
as "dip wad".

#6, Andrew then mocks the name of Tom's BBS (The Warpzone BBS) by
calling it "WarfZone BBS"

#7, Andrew then mocks the value of Tom's BBS to the Port Zero's
network.

We all know that when you run a BBS one of the objects is to attract
users. One way to do this is to have a chat night. Come on, ever
since multi-line systems came out this concept has been implemented. I
don't think that Andrew can take any credit here in creating an
original concept.

I don't think Tom was upset that Andrew advertised his BBS. I think
that Tom was just upset in the way Andrew did it. I don't care how you
slice it Tom did nothing wrong here and your implying he did! All Tom
did was promote his BBS and Andrew blasted him.

Post by user
The use of "LOL" was rude, and it was not the height of tact to advertise as
a reply to Tom's post, but to go out of your way to slam Black

Phantom is

Post by user
silly, as it is for you to condem all the BBSes on the chat night just based
on one sysop's actions.

I did not slam Andrew. My comments were not a personal attack on him
in any way. They were directed towards his actions and responses. If
you can point out a single line of text where I slammed Andrew, then I
will offer my apologies to Andrew. Otherwise I stand by my comments.

I have not condemned all the BBSes on the chat night just based on one
sysop's actions. It was Andrew that conducted himself poorly when
representing the Port Zero Network. That in turn reflected badly on
the systems that make up the Port Zero Network. Finally, the systems
of Port Zero have to pay the price for Andrew's actions.

D5

user

2005-04-17 18:31:47 UTC

Post by d***@propg.com
Ok, lets go on your assumption that Tom did intend to have weekly chat
nights. That still does not justify his comments or reaction to Tom.
#1, Andrew posted an advertisement for his chat night against the very
advertisement Tom had for his. Some would call this over-posting!
It's inconsiderate and rude anyway you look at it.
#3, Andrew starts off with "LOL" in what would appear to make fun of
Tom's achievements.
#4, Andrew implies that if you call Tom's system on their chat night
that you would not have anyone to chat with.
#5, Andrew starts off another post by calling Tom a "jackass" as well
as "dip wad".
#6, Andrew then mocks the name of Tom's BBS (The Warpzone BBS) by
calling it "WarfZone BBS"
#7, Andrew then mocks the value of Tom's BBS to the Port Zero's
network.

Yes, Black Phantom acted badly, I said so! I am just trying to explain how
Tom using basically the same idea to attract users so soon after Black
Phantom did was what upset him. Why can no one see my point?
Another example:
If I advertise a back sale and a week later you advertise a bake sale it
appears that you are "jumping on the band wagon" even though bake sales go
back hundreds of years. It is about timing, get it?

Post by d***@propg.com
I did not slam Andrew. My comments were not a personal attack on him
in any way. They were directed towards his actions and responses. If
you can point out a single line of text where I slammed Andrew, then I
will offer my apologies to Andrew. Otherwise I stand by my comments.
I have not condemned all the BBSes on the chat night just based on one
sysop's actions. It was Andrew that conducted himself poorly when
representing the Port Zero Network. That in turn reflected badly on
the systems that make up the Port Zero Network. Finally, the systems
of Port Zero have to pay the price for Andrew's actions.

You are splitting hairs again, you are coming down hard on Black Phanton for
1 rant of his. I see now that this feud has been going on for some time and
this was just more fuel on the fire.

I am tired of trying to explain my point, and I do not want to defend Black
Phantom since I have said over and over his actions were wrong, I just
wanted people to see what prompted his actions but the animosity toward him
(justified perhaps) is too strong.

ElectroPig

2005-04-17 22:09:42 UTC

1) Tom made a COMPLETELY separate post.
2) Tom did NOT walk over Andrew's post AT ALL.
3) Andrew deliberately (as noted above) atacked, ridiculed and denigrated
both Tom AND his system.
4) Andrew's actions have made it so that Tom no longer wants to join the
Port0 network--6 systems would have been cooler than 5, you must
admit--despite Andrew's posted and public disdain for Tom and his system.
5) Andrew deliberately changed the response's subject to ensure that any
responses made--positive OR NEGATIVE--would still act as a banner for HIS
system...another deliberate act against Tom's system. (You will note that I
am attempting to rectify this situation with MY responses going back to
Tom's original purpose.)

All these deliberate attacks on Tom for merely trying to set up his system
and get people to check it out were totally unwarranted. There IS NO EXCUSE
for attacking someone who never did anything to you. What Andrew's
responses did, in effect, amount to a pre-emptive strike against possible
future competition from Tom.

Fact is, there's a LOT of room amongst the 6 billion people on this planet
to have more than one telnetted joinlink, IMHO...as a matter of fact, I dont
think that CNet can even support 6 billion users...so there NEEDS to be more
than one!

Post by user
If I advertise a back sale and a week later you advertise a bake sale it
appears that you are "jumping on the band wagon" even though bake sales go
back hundreds of years. It is about timing, get it?

We had two churches in our town have bakes sales last weekend. I went to
both of them. Got KILLER oatmeal chocolate chip cookies at the Mennonite
bake sale, and the best gaddamn brownies I ever had at St. John's Anglican
church. (I'd marry that woman if she wasn't...well....like...a hundred...)

I think that I may have missed your point. What exactly was your point?
That people can't access two competing systems at different times? There's
no law against it.

Just to further elucidate my point: How many pizza parlours are there in
your town, anyway? Just one? Clothing stores? Shoe stores? Video stores?
How many roads do they have? Just one running through the middle of town?

You are splitting hairs again, you are coming down hard on Black Phanton for
1 rant of his. I see now that this feud has been going on for some time and
this was just more fuel on the fire.

Listen. The guy attacked someone who didn't attack him first. There was
no reason for him to do that. Period.

Post by user
I am tired of trying to explain my point, and I do not want to defend Black
Phantom since I have said over and over his actions were wrong, I just
wanted people to see what prompted his actions but the animosity toward him
(justified perhaps) is too strong.

We all understand his motivations, and we all hope that he doesn't do it
again. I'm sure we'll all be quite happy to let it go if it doesn't occur
in the future, as well.

user

2005-04-18 02:59:58 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
I think that I may have missed your point. What exactly was your point?
That people can't access two competing systems at different times?

There's

Post by ElectroPig
no law against it.
Just to further elucidate my point: How many pizza parlours are there in
your town, anyway? Just one? Clothing stores? Shoe stores? Video stores?
How many roads do they have? Just one running through the middle of town?

You do not understand my point.

It is not about competing businesses, or competing BBSes. It is about using
the same promotion that someone else just recently used.
Is it wrong? No. But it looks a little like a copycat.

ElectroPig

2005-04-18 08:51:51 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
I think that I may have missed your point. What exactly was your point?
That people can't access two competing systems at different times?

There's

Post by ElectroPig
no law against it.
Just to further elucidate my point: How many pizza parlours are there

Post by ElectroPig
your town, anyway? Just one? Clothing stores? Shoe stores? Video

stores?

Post by ElectroPig
How many roads do they have? Just one running through the middle of town?

You do not understand my point.

Apparrently you are right. I don't understand it at all.

Post by ElectroPig
It is not about competing businesses, or competing BBSes. It is about using
the same promotion that someone else just recently used.
Is it wrong? No. But it looks a little like a copycat.

How many ads can you find in your local paper for 2000 square foot homes?
Do you see people driving all over town putting up "For sale...and far
better than THIS dump! Come see OUR HOUSE at...." signs on other people's
houses, do you? You don't see all the people in the newspaper taking out
ads against the rest of the people who put up ads, do you? I saw 3 ads in
the Saturday Star for 1994 Camaros for sale...all by different people, yet
NONE of them were worded in such a way as to insinuate that THEIR Camaro was
better than all the rest of the Camaros listed in the paper that day, or
attacking the other advertisers' ads.

Why is this any different? Because it's online? Does that mean that the
rest of the universe's rules and guidelines are no longer applicable? Do
all the laws of physics break down the second one connects to the internet,
as well? No. They do not. At least, not in my experience...others'
results may vary.

Let's just face the facts. It was a tactless and irresponsible move by
someone who is apparently afraid of competition, and hopefully it will not
happen again.

By even saying "he's a copycat" it alludes not only to the childishness of
the original attack on him, but also to those who support his actions.

user

2005-04-18 16:42:42 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
How many ads can you find in your local paper for 2000 square foot homes?
Do you see people driving all over town putting up "For sale...and far
better than THIS dump! Come see OUR HOUSE at...." signs on other people's
houses, do you? You don't see all the people in the newspaper taking out
ads against the rest of the people who put up ads, do you? I saw 3 ads in
the Saturday Star for 1994 Camaros for sale...all by different people, yet
NONE of them were worded in such a way as to insinuate that THEIR Camaro was
better than all the rest of the Camaros listed in the paper that day, or
attacking the other advertisers' ads.
Why is this any different? Because it's online? Does that mean that the
rest of the universe's rules and guidelines are no longer applicable? Do
all the laws of physics break down the second one connects to the internet,
as well? No. They do not. At least, not in my experience...others'
results may vary.
Let's just face the facts. It was a tactless and irresponsible move by
someone who is apparently afraid of competition, and hopefully it will not
happen again.
By even saying "he's a copycat" it alludes not only to the childishness of
the original attack on him, but also to those who support his actions.

You just do not get it. I will try one last time. It is like if a bank
gives away a free vcr with every new account and a week later the bank down
the street starts to give away a free vcr with every new account. It looks
lame.
You need to seperate Tom's action and Black Phantom's action. Black Phantom
was WRONG, Tom was rather lame.

Besides I see ads all the time that claim a product is better than a
competitor and attacks their ad. You blew that one;)

ElectroPig

2005-04-18 17:18:27 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
How many ads can you find in your local paper for 2000 square foot

homes?

Post by ElectroPig
Do you see people driving all over town putting up "For sale...and far
better than THIS dump! Come see OUR HOUSE at...." signs on other people's
houses, do you? You don't see all the people in the newspaper taking out
ads against the rest of the people who put up ads, do you? I saw 3 ads in
the Saturday Star for 1994 Camaros for sale...all by different people, yet
NONE of them were worded in such a way as to insinuate that THEIR Camaro

was

Post by ElectroPig
better than all the rest of the Camaros listed in the paper that day, or
attacking the other advertisers' ads.
Why is this any different? Because it's online? Does that mean that

the

Post by ElectroPig
rest of the universe's rules and guidelines are no longer applicable?

Post by ElectroPig
all the laws of physics break down the second one connects to the

internet,

Post by ElectroPig
as well? No. They do not. At least, not in my experience...others'
results may vary.
Let's just face the facts. It was a tactless and irresponsible move by
someone who is apparently afraid of competition, and hopefully it will not
happen again.
By even saying "he's a copycat" it alludes not only to the

childishness

Post by ElectroPig
of

Post by ElectroPig
the original attack on him, but also to those who support his actions.

You just do not get it. I will try one last time. It is like if a bank
gives away a free vcr with every new account and a week later the bank down
the street starts to give away a free vcr with every new account. It looks
lame.
You need to seperate Tom's action and Black Phantom's action. Black Phantom
was WRONG, Tom was rather lame.
Besides I see ads all the time that claim a product is better than a
competitor and attacks their ad. You blew that one;)

How did I blow it, they still published THEIR OWN ads...and didn't
piggyback on someone else's...which brings us right back to the heart of the
matter at hand. Tom didn't piggyback. Tom didn't attack Andrew, his
system, or attempt to cause damage to, or to even insinuate that his system
was "better in any way" than anyone else's system. He simply offered people
an option, to take or to leave.

Possible "LaMeNaZz" aside, he followed proper "netiquette" in posting his
own ad separately, and didn't walk on anyone else's post.

PUBLIC NOTICE: This Newsgroup was established for the express purpose of
SUPPORT of CNet/PRO SYSOPS. Anyone who does not understand this is free to
unsubscribe at any time. CNet will be far better off in the long run if
only supportive and constructive people exist here...we can live without
numbers if we've got quality posters who actually give a damn about
themselves enough to know that attacking other people accomplishes nothing
positive in the end in the vast majority of cases!!! This, in my opinion,
being one GLARING example.

--30--

user

2005-04-18 18:24:25 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
How did I blow it, they still published THEIR OWN ads...and didn't
piggyback on someone else's...which brings us right back to the heart of the
matter at hand. Tom didn't piggyback. Tom didn't attack Andrew, his
system, or attempt to cause damage to, or to even insinuate that his system
was "better in any way" than anyone else's system. He simply offered people
an option, to take or to leave.
Possible "LaMeNaZz" aside, he followed proper "netiquette" in posting his
own ad separately, and didn't walk on anyone else's post.

You blew it because you claimed no one insults other products in their ads.
I see ads on tv, such as car ads, that claim the other product is inferior,
and they show people laughing at the other person. Pretty harsh.

I agree with you that that is not the best way to advertise but it is used.

You seemed to always want to bring Black Phantom's actions into the
disscussion, my only point was, to me, using the same promotion another
person did was weak.

ElectroPig

2005-04-18 20:24:00 UTC

Post by Andrew Alexander

Post by ElectroPig
How did I blow it, they still published THEIR OWN ads...and didn't
piggyback on someone else's...which brings us right back to the heart of

the

Post by ElectroPig
matter at hand. Tom didn't piggyback. Tom didn't attack Andrew, his
system, or attempt to cause damage to, or to even insinuate that his

system

Post by ElectroPig
was "better in any way" than anyone else's system. He simply offered

people

Post by ElectroPig
an option, to take or to leave.
Possible "LaMeNaZz" aside, he followed proper "netiquette" in posting

his

Post by ElectroPig
own ad separately, and didn't walk on anyone else's post.

You blew it because you claimed no one insults other products in their ads.
I see ads on tv, such as car ads, that claim the other product is inferior,
and they show people laughing at the other person. Pretty harsh.
I agree with you that that is not the best way to advertise but it is used.
You seemed to always want to bring Black Phantom's actions into the
disscussion, my only point was, to me, using the same promotion another
person did was weak.

Well, you kinda blew it when you said it was a "copycat" action. You
didn't hear anyone else saying that AA's attack/response was a "fraidycat"
response. We all know it was immature and totally uncalled for, in all it's
points, and that's really where it should rest. Everyone has the right to
post availability of their system, and should not have to be subjected to
attacks simply by such a simple thing as letting people know that they have
an operating BBS, and/or any features they have available.

As for me, I also make sure that I referred to the responder by the name
he used when posting his response, rather than his BBS handle, which was not
used. I find it interesting that you ONLY refer to him by his handle,
actually.

As far as my bringing his (AA/BP's) actions to the fore, that's nothing
more than common sense, since it WAS his actions which were the negative
stimulus of this entire thread, rather than the original posting itself,
which harmed noone.

Furthermore, without Andrew's negative response and attacks on Tom and his
system, you'd have had no reason to attempt to stand up for him at all, as
he'd have not done anything wrong to anyone. Realistically, about 95% of
this discussion has centered on your defending AA's actions because he was
simply afraid of a little healthy competition and reacted to Tom's post
without thinking.

Hopefully, as has been said before, it won't happen again. Time will
tell.

You are completely at your own discretion to defend attacks against
whomever may post BBS ads in the future however, although you should be
aware at this point that negativity WILL be addressed by those whose main
concern is the BBS system as a whole, and not a single BBS and/or network
with delusions of grandeur.

Please note, I do NOT believe that the remaining systems in the Port Zero
network condone Andrew's post, and I believe the fact that none of them has
stepped forward to defend his actions supports this line of reasoning.

user

2005-04-18 21:45:59 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
Well, you kinda blew it when you said it was a "copycat" action.

I did not blow it. It was a copycat action.

Post by ElectroPig
As for me, I also make sure that I referred to the responder by the name
he used when posting his response, rather than his BBS handle, which was not
used. I find it interesting that you ONLY refer to him by his handle,
actually.

What does this have to do with anything? I only know him by his handle.

Post by ElectroPig
Furthermore, without Andrew's negative response and attacks on Tom and his
system, you'd have had no reason to attempt to stand up for him at all, as
he'd have not done anything wrong to anyone. Realistically, about 95% of
this discussion has centered on your defending AA's actions because he was
simply afraid of a little healthy competition and reacted to Tom's post
without thinking.
Hopefully, as has been said before, it won't happen again. Time will
tell.
You are completely at your own discretion to defend attacks against
whomever may post BBS ads in the future however, although you should be
aware at this point that negativity WILL be addressed by those whose main
concern is the BBS system as a whole, and not a single BBS and/or network
with delusions of grandeur.

boy, you really do not get it. I am NOT defending Black Phantom. I have
said MANY TIMES he was wrong. Are you reading everything I write? I am
just saying Tom is not perfect.

ElectroPig

2005-04-18 23:30:58 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
Well, you kinda blew it when you said it was a "copycat" action.

I did not blow it. It was a copycat action.

Post by ElectroPig
As for me, I also make sure that I referred to the responder by the name
he used when posting his response, rather than his BBS handle, which was

not

Post by ElectroPig
used. I find it interesting that you ONLY refer to him by his handle,
actually.

What does this have to do with anything? I only know him by his handle.

Post by ElectroPig
Furthermore, without Andrew's negative response and attacks on Tom and

his

Post by ElectroPig
system, you'd have had no reason to attempt to stand up for him at all, as
he'd have not done anything wrong to anyone. Realistically, about 95% of
this discussion has centered on your defending AA's actions because he was
simply afraid of a little healthy competition and reacted to Tom's post
without thinking.
Hopefully, as has been said before, it won't happen again. Time will
tell.
You are completely at your own discretion to defend attacks against
whomever may post BBS ads in the future however, although you should be
aware at this point that negativity WILL be addressed by those whose main
concern is the BBS system as a whole, and not a single BBS and/or network
with delusions of grandeur.

boy, you really do not get it. I am NOT defending Black Phantom. I have
said MANY TIMES he was wrong. Are you reading everything I write? I am
just saying Tom is not perfect.

For your benefit, I concede the fact that Tom is at the very least, "most
likely not perfect", given the commonly held belief that noone can be. He
might very well be butt ugly, 900 lbs, have a hunchback, a goitre the size
of Philadelphia on his neck, walk with a limp because of hammer-toes on both
feet and have a voice that suggests what Boris Karloff would sound like on
opium, for all I know.

The fact remains that he did nothing wrong, speaking SOLELY on the heart
of the REAL issue at hand, and given the facts presented thus far.

And yes, I have read everything you wrote. You seem to just be skirting
details in preference to the true heart of the situation. The trouble in my
mind is that your basic premise(s) are faulty. The basic premise, as I see
it, is this:

1) One should not be condemned for posting a promotional ad in a
newsgroup devoted for such topics.

2) This newsgroup is devoted to supporting SYSOPs, and BBS ads are 100%
allowable here.

3) One who attacks another without provocation of any kind should be.

4) Those who support those who attack others without provocation should
have their claims/questions addressed to clarify the situation as soon as
possible.

5) All of the above premises, and the faults therein appertaining, have
been addressed.

I trust this ends this particular discussion, and the next time Tom--or
any other SYSOP--makes a post, we can all expect that he or she will not
have to worry about being attacked for no reason other than a single
person's bruised and/or swollen ego.

user

2005-04-19 04:39:55 UTC

I only have ONE premise

Tom's ad was lame.

That is it, my one and only point. You put other agendas into my mouth.

If you will just understand that I will move on.

ElectroPig

2005-04-19 05:02:22 UTC

Post by user
I only have ONE premise
Tom's ad was lame.

And whether or not that has any basis in reality does not negate the fact
that the attack on him was unwarranted.

Post by user
That is it, my one and only point. You put other agendas into my mouth.

I put nothing into your mouth. I only sought to enlighten you to the
facts.

Post by user
If you will just understand that I will move on.

I understand that "LaMeNaZz" is a key constituent of "eLiTe UzArZ"
vernacular. It has no place here. All SYSOPs who enter this newsgroup
should expect to be treated fairly and with some degree of respect by their
fellow SYSOPs, and those who disrespect others will be noted.

If you wish to support SYSOPs, you're welcome to continue reading and
responding in this newsgroup. If not, you are free to unsubscribe and find
things better suited to your tastes. Noone is demanding or otherwise
requiring your continued presence.

user

2005-04-19 06:24:08 UTC

Post by user
That is it, my one and only point. You put other agendas into my mouth.

I put nothing into your mouth. I only sought to enlighten you to the
facts.

Off topic facts, off of my topic anyway

Post by user
If you will just understand that I will move on.

I understand that "LaMeNaZz" is a key constituent of "eLiTe UzArZ"
vernacular. It has no place here. All SYSOPs who enter this newsgroup
should expect to be treated fairly and with some degree of respect by their
fellow SYSOPs, and those who disrespect others will be noted.
If you wish to support SYSOPs, you're welcome to continue reading and
responding in this newsgroup. If not, you are free to unsubscribe and find
things better suited to your tastes. Noone is demanding or otherwise
requiring your continued presence.

I spelled the word properly for a reason. I am not some punk 'elite' kid.
I am entitled to my opinion and I can post it here all I like. This is an
unmoderated alt group, I do not need your permission to post here. Loose
your power trip and your combative nature.

ElectroPig

2005-04-19 07:36:38 UTC

Post by user
That is it, my one and only point. You put other agendas into my mouth.

I put nothing into your mouth. I only sought to enlighten you to the
facts.

Off topic facts, off of my topic anyway

And therein lies the key.

Post by user
I spelled the word properly for a reason. I am not some punk 'elite' kid.
I am entitled to my opinion and I can post it here all I like. This is an
unmoderated alt group, I do not need your permission to post here. Loose
your power trip and your combative nature.

Who's combative? It's simple. You're pushing a non issue that anyone
with common sense knows if foolish, trying to build it into an issue that
noone but you and the original negative poster can agree on, and failing
rather badly.

user

2005-04-19 17:23:47 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
Who's combative? It's simple. You're pushing a non issue that anyone
with common sense knows if foolish, trying to build it into an issue that
noone but you and the original negative poster can agree on, and failing
rather badly.

I have made my point well and anyone with an open mind should be able to
understand it.

I am done.

Sam Gillett

2005-04-20 03:22:41 UTC

"user" wrote ...

Post by user
I have made my point well and anyone with an open mind should be able to
understand it.

I have an open mind, understand your point, and find your point to be the
pinnacle of lameness.

--
Best regards,

Sam Gillett

Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!

Christian Lott

2005-04-20 03:46:56 UTC

Post by Sam Gillett
"user" wrote ...

Post by user
I have made my point well and anyone with an open mind should be able to
understand it.

I have an open mind, understand your point, and find your point to be the
pinnacle of lameness.

rofl

user

2005-04-20 04:10:52 UTC

Post by Sam Gillett
"user" wrote ...

Post by user
I have made my point well and anyone with an open mind should be able to
understand it.

I have an open mind, understand your point, and find your point to be the
pinnacle of lameness.

Thank you for sharing that, obviously I disagree

Ray A. Akey

2005-04-19 08:55:05 UTC

Post by ElectroPig
If you wish to support SYSOPs, you're welcome to continue reading
and responding in this newsgroup. If not, you are free to
unsubscribe and find things better suited to your tastes. Noone is
demanding or otherwise requiring your continued presence.

I spelled the word properly for a reason. I am not some punk 'elite'
kid. I am entitled to my opinion and I can post it here all I like.
This is an unmoderated alt group, I do not need your permission to
post here. Loose your power trip and your combative nature.

LOL! Nice one, but..

Good luck, "user." He's lord over CNet and the source code now. Get
yourself a bucket of popcorn and watch the show. :)

By the way, I noticed Knight talking about making something meaningless into
an issue. Wow, talk about being a hypocrit! The perfect segue for this:

As promised previously (have your popcorn handy now, before you start
reading! LOL).. here's some relevant snippets of an old IRC log that I
finally found (and Knight tried to deny it in this newsgroup previously). It
took me this long to find it but I had to find it since he made me look like
a liar by denying it. Everyone knows it really happened and now here's the
proof. I still, to this day, converse with a few of the people present in
the channel back then.

"Eutopian" is Todd, I am "HMetal" and the others are CNet sysops, many of
them regulars who helped me find and fix CNet bugs but have moved on to
greener pastures..

FYI: For legal reasons, I must state the following just to be safe: This
log is from a *public* IRC channel and I was not under any form of NDA as a
ZMS partner. I post it as factual account of the events that took place.

======
«Join» Eutopian (***@windsor38.netrover.com) has joined this channel.
«OP» services.beyondirc.org gives channel operator status to Eutopian
Eutopian> Dotoran is suspended from updates for 120 days, or until his
checkhas ben cashed. THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.
HMetal> What the f--- is that about???
StarGaze> ??? What was that?
HMetal> Tell Dave (Dotoran) to send me email explaining whatever is going
on, if you see him..
StarGaze> I'll pass that along to Dave if I see him
HMetal> SG: Thanks. I left him a message on TBot but if he asks.. :)
StarGaze> I'll leave a note on his bbs, he'll get it faster that way.
HMetal> SG: Thanks.
HMetal> I haven't read the mailing list in a few days.. Did I miss an
argument between Dave and Todd or something??
HMetal> (just getting mail now but the first item is a 10 Meg file..)
Cryto> Hello!
HMetal> Hey Cryt..
HMetal> anyone talked to Dotoran at all, that would know what's up with he
and Todd? I just rang Todd's and he's not answering the phone - which is
funny considering he was in IRC only moments ago..
StarGaze> I talked to Dotoran about 3 days ago or so, but nothing was
mentioned about any problems with him and Todd.
HMetal> Trolan: Talk to Dot today at all?
Trolan> HM: not today no..
HMetal> Trolan: From Todd, about 10-15 minutes ago --> *Eutopian*: Dotoran
is suspended from updates for 120 days, or until his checkhas ben cashed.
THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.
«Join» Eutopian (***@windsor38.netrover.com) has joined this channel.
«OP» services.beyondirc.org gives channel operator status to Eutopian
Eutopian> EuPISSED
Eutopian> He's done for 120 days. PERIOD. He wants to tell the world how I
have no say in CNet, then FUCK HIM. There's proof.
HMetal> That's not good enough. Not good enough by a long shot.
Eutopian> You got anything to say other than that, then READ YOUR MAIL.
HMetal> No.. Explain.
Eutopian> I will NOT be fucked over in publuc again. If you SUPPORT those
who do, you're done just as quickly. PERIOD. I've fucking well had ENOUGH.
«Quit» Eutopian (***@windsor38.netrover.com) has signed off (Read error
to Eutopian[windsor38.netrover.com]: EOF from client).
lebon> oh wait
lebon> I know what he's talking about
lebon> he's pissed because Dot said Ray is the coder and not Todd...
HMetal> lebon: That's the truth.
lebon> no reason for him to get pissed
lebon> HMetal: I know!
HMetal> lebon: That's the truth. Todd coded/codes nothing.
StarGaze> Everyone knows that Ray is the coder and one of the best i'v ever
had the pleasure to know.
lebon> HMetal: you don't have to tell me that.. I know that :)
Trolan> HM: and if he wants to go against all documented rights to 4.x
sysops.... he'll get hosed even worse. And more publically
Epyx> Todd seems to like to cry alot of things. He needs to take a chill
pill.
Cryto> WHat has Todd threatened to do?
lebon> ok, this is fucked
lebon> hell, Todd has said it himself a few times that he leaves the coding
to you
HMetal> If he pops in again, tell him I'll be right back.. Gotta go pick up
the wife.
HMetal> All: brb.. 10 minutes or so..
Trolan> HM: =)
StarGaze> ;)
lebon> :)
lebon> geez, is Todd PMSing or what?
Cryto> So what is Todd mad about? I'm not on the ML anymore, so...
lebon> he's mad 'cause Dot said that Ray was in charge of porting issues
since he is the coder and not Todd
lebon> shit
lebon> I just read Todd's mail to the list... talk about overreacting
Cryto> Trolan: Ok. I wanna read it to see exactly whats going on.. Was
Todd threatening all C-Net 4.x sysops, or what?
Trolan> HM: what is todd smoking now, and when will he pass it on?
lebon> no shit
lebon> it doesn't look good
Trolan> HM: Todd cannot lock him out for that email definately.. not a
breach of license agreement, nor a slur against the business
Cryto> HMetal: Yeah.. Todd can't shut him out just because Dot said
something that Todd didn't like..
lebon> Todd is shooting C-Net in the foot with shit like that
Trolan> lebon: no, I think he's just shooting himself in the foot.
Trolan> he's going to hit Cnet with the scatter.. but..
Cryto> HMetal: Todd's E-Mail addy please? :)
HMetal> I'm back
HMetal> ***@resurrection.com
Trolan> HM: he seems to have a problem keeping his business perspective
froma personal perspective.. (ack.. there's that P-word.. ;)
Cryto> HMetal: OK.
======

So, you see.. As much as Knight likes to pretend certain events didn't
happen and that I told people things to make them hate him so they would
like me, I didn't desire nor need to say a word. These people formed their
own opinions based on Todd's words and actions.

Oh, by the way.. This will probably be one of my last communications to
this list until I make an announcement later this or next week about my
potential future relationship with and for CNet/X.

Enjoy and, to fittingly quote Jerry Springer, "be good to each other." :)

Ray

Milt

2005-04-20 22:57:51 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
"Eutopian" is Todd, I am "HMetal" and the others are CNet sysops, many of
them regulars who helped me find and fix CNet bugs but have moved on to
greener pastures..
FYI: For legal reasons, I must state the following just to be safe: This
log is from a *public* IRC channel and I was not under any form of NDA as a
ZMS partner. I post it as factual account of the events that took place.
======
«OP» services.beyondirc.org gives channel operator status to Eutopian
Eutopian> Dotoran is suspended from updates for 120 days, or until his
checkhas ben cashed. THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.
HMetal> What the f--- is that about???
StarGaze> ??? What was that?
HMetal> Tell Dave (Dotoran) to send me email explaining whatever is going
on, if you see him..
StarGaze> I'll pass that along to Dave if I see him
HMetal> SG: Thanks. I left him a message on TBot but if he asks.. :)
StarGaze> I'll leave a note on his bbs, he'll get it faster that way.
HMetal> SG: Thanks.
HMetal> I haven't read the mailing list in a few days.. Did I miss an
argument between Dave and Todd or something??
HMetal> (just getting mail now but the first item is a 10 Meg file..)
Cryto> Hello!
HMetal> Hey Cryt..
HMetal> anyone talked to Dotoran at all, that would know what's up with he
and Todd? I just rang Todd's and he's not answering the phone - which is
funny considering he was in IRC only moments ago..
StarGaze> I talked to Dotoran about 3 days ago or so, but nothing was
mentioned about any problems with him and Todd.
HMetal> Trolan: Talk to Dot today at all?
Trolan> HM: not today no..
HMetal> Trolan: From Todd, about 10-15 minutes ago --> *Eutopian*: Dotoran
is suspended from updates for 120 days, or until his checkhas ben cashed.
THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.
«OP» services.beyondirc.org gives channel operator status to Eutopian
Eutopian> EuPISSED
Eutopian> He's done for 120 days. PERIOD. He wants to tell the world how I
have no say in CNet, then FUCK HIM. There's proof.
HMetal> That's not good enough. Not good enough by a long shot.
Eutopian> You got anything to say other than that, then READ YOUR MAIL.
HMetal> No.. Explain.
Eutopian> I will NOT be fucked over in publuc again. If you SUPPORT those
who do, you're done just as quickly. PERIOD. I've fucking well had ENOUGH.
to Eutopian[windsor38.netrover.com]: EOF from client).
lebon> oh wait
lebon> I know what he's talking about
lebon> he's pissed because Dot said Ray is the coder and not Todd...
HMetal> lebon: That's the truth.
lebon> no reason for him to get pissed
lebon> HMetal: I know!
HMetal> lebon: That's the truth. Todd coded/codes nothing.
StarGaze> Everyone knows that Ray is the coder and one of the best i'v ever
had the pleasure to know.
lebon> HMetal: you don't have to tell me that.. I know that :)
Trolan> HM: and if he wants to go against all documented rights to 4.x
sysops.... he'll get hosed even worse. And more publically
Epyx> Todd seems to like to cry alot of things. He needs to take a chill
pill.
Cryto> WHat has Todd threatened to do?
lebon> ok, this is fucked
lebon> hell, Todd has said it himself a few times that he leaves the coding
to you
HMetal> If he pops in again, tell him I'll be right back.. Gotta go pick up
the wife.
HMetal> All: brb.. 10 minutes or so..
Trolan> HM: =)
StarGaze> ;)
lebon> :)
lebon> geez, is Todd PMSing or what?
Cryto> So what is Todd mad about? I'm not on the ML anymore, so...
lebon> he's mad 'cause Dot said that Ray was in charge of porting issues
since he is the coder and not Todd
lebon> shit
lebon> I just read Todd's mail to the list... talk about overreacting
Cryto> Trolan: Ok. I wanna read it to see exactly whats going on.. Was
Todd threatening all C-Net 4.x sysops, or what?
Trolan> HM: what is todd smoking now, and when will he pass it on?
lebon> no shit
lebon> it doesn't look good
Trolan> HM: Todd cannot lock him out for that email definately.. not a
breach of license agreement, nor a slur against the business
Cryto> HMetal: Yeah.. Todd can't shut him out just because Dot said
something that Todd didn't like..
lebon> Todd is shooting C-Net in the foot with shit like that
Trolan> lebon: no, I think he's just shooting himself in the foot.
Trolan> he's going to hit Cnet with the scatter.. but..
Cryto> HMetal: Todd's E-Mail addy please? :)
HMetal> I'm back
Trolan> HM: he seems to have a problem keeping his business perspective
froma personal perspective.. (ack.. there's that P-word.. ;)
Cryto> HMetal: OK.
======
So, you see.. As much as Knight likes to pretend certain events didn't
happen and that I told people things to make them hate him so they would
like me, I didn't desire nor need to say a word. These people formed their
own opinions based on Todd's words and actions.
Oh, by the way.. This will probably be one of my last communications to
this list until I make an announcement later this or next week about my
potential future relationship with and for CNet/X.
Enjoy and, to fittingly quote Jerry Springer, "be good to each other." :)
Ray

OMG! I remember that night quite well (FYI, I was "lebon" in that chat)!
I think you could see by the comments made there what I thought of the
situation. This would have been back in hmmmm 1997... possibly? I know
it was VERY long ago...I'm surprised these logs were still around. I
used to havea bunch of logs, at one time... Unless they are on the ZIP
disk backup made from the old BBS drive.. they are long gone (R.I.P you
dear A3000T... you served me well).

Its fun to stroll down memory lane sometimes :)

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Ray A. Akey

2005-04-21 07:30:56 UTC

Post by Milt
OMG! I remember that night quite well (FYI, I was "lebon" in that chat)!

[...]

Post by Milt
Its fun to stroll down memory lane sometimes :)

Yep! I was remembering the old channel and the sometimes fun we had jesting
with each other, when there wasn't a really urgent bug using up my time.

I should post, to a webpage, the whole 700+ day log that I have of that old
channel. That would sure generate some chuckles. >:-)

Milt

2005-04-21 16:53:19 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
Yep! I was remembering the old channel and the sometimes fun we had jesting
with each other, when there wasn't a really urgent bug using up my time.
I should post, to a webpage, the whole 700+ day log that I have of that old
channel. That would sure generate some chuckles. >:-)

Holy cow! Yeah it sure would, I know I'd love to read it.

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Sam Gillett

2005-04-20 03:22:40 UTC

"user" wrote ...

Post by user
I only have ONE premise
Tom's ad was lame.

Why was Tom's post lame? Is _anyone_ other than Black Phantom who posts a
chat night notice lame? Now hear this! Telnet is a _big_ place, and more
than one little group of BBS's do exist in cyberspace.

Post by user
That is it, my one and only point.

And a very lame point it is.

--
Best regards,

Sam Gillett

Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!

user

2005-04-20 04:14:31 UTC

Post by Sam Gillett
"user" wrote ...

Post by user
I only have ONE premise
Tom's ad was lame.

Because he used the same technique someone else had just used! He could
have waited a bit longer, mentioned a game night, held a contest, etc. Does
not anyone care about orginality anymore? That must be why so many TV shows
look the same.

Ray A. Akey

2005-04-20 05:24:30 UTC

Post by user
Because he used the same technique someone else had just used! He
could have waited a bit longer, mentioned a game night, held a
contest, etc. Does not anyone care about orginality anymore? That
must be why so many TV shows look the same.

Why don't you all just connect together? The more, the better, IMO. Make
it HUGE! Think of it as your own little IRC-like network.

user

2005-04-20 05:26:45 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
Why don't you all just connect together? The more, the better, IMO. Make
it HUGE! Think of it as your own little IRC-like network.

Too many BBSes and not enough users

Ray A. Akey

2005-04-20 08:15:53 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
Why don't you all just connect together? The more, the better, IMO.
Make it HUGE! Think of it as your own little IRC-like network.

Too many BBSes and not enough users

Well, I can't disagree with you there. You are seeing the reason that it
was not economically feasible for me to personally keep development of CNet
Amiga going. If sysops can't get users, sysops don't buy.

Dr. Video

2005-04-20 20:09:51 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey

Post by Ray A. Akey
Why don't you all just connect together? The more, the better, IMO.
Make it HUGE! Think of it as your own little IRC-like network.

Too many BBSes and not enough users

Uhh, more like most sysops have no clue how to get callers. It takes
more than just turning the switch on.

Addixion gets 10-20 callers per day, sometimes as high as 30, and
anywhere from 15-30 posts on a typical day (the present record is 52
posts on a single day). More than that, it's busy for 3-4 hours a day
with people playing my online games or transferring files.

There are PLENTY of bbs users out there, but you have to have a reason
for someone to want to call it.

Cmon guys, this bickering is the LAMEST thread ever posted to CSC.

--
ADDiXiON BBS - telnet://addixion.hopto.org
DrivenOnline.org BBS HQ (lots of NTSC demos/tools/bbs software!)
A *REAL* Commodore 128 Bulletin Board System

Ryan

2005-04-20 21:46:28 UTC

Post by Dr. Video
Uhh, more like most sysops have no clue how to get callers. It takes
more than just turning the switch on.

Definately.

Post by Dr. Video
Addixion gets 10-20 callers per day, sometimes as high as 30, and
anywhere from 15-30 posts on a typical day (the present record is 52
posts on a single day). More than that, it's busy for 3-4 hours a day
with people playing my online games or transferring files.
There are PLENTY of bbs users out there, but you have to have a reason
for someone to want to call it.

Of course.

Post by Dr. Video
Cmon guys, this bickering is the LAMEST thread ever posted to CSC.

{chuckle} I could not agree with you more! This kind of bickering is
what makes casual users say "Why would I want to be part of THAT community?"

Ryan

(Someday, I hope some day I'll actualy be able to CONNECT to your BBS
instead of getting a telnet busy signal. :)

Ray A. Akey

2005-04-21 07:28:25 UTC

Post by Dr. Video

Post by Ray A. Akey
Well, I can't disagree with you there. You are seeing the reason
that it was not economically feasible for me to personally keep
development of CNet Amiga going. If sysops can't get users, sysops
don't buy.

Uhh, more like most sysops have no clue how to get callers. It takes
more than just turning the switch on.

You're just splitting hairs now. It all boils down to the same thing. But,
to be concilliatory.. if sysops can't or don't know how to get callers,
BBSes die, sysops don't buy (or upgrade) unless they're very passionate
about BBSing in general as us remaining few are or were at one time.

I may not run a BBS anymore (and yes, I still have one set up, just not
connected to the internet or any phone lines) but I'm still passionate about
CNet and my CNet Amiga development experience. Even Knight can't destroy
that. :)

Post by Dr. Video
Cmon guys, this bickering is the LAMEST thread ever posted to CSC.

I agree.

Everyone kiss and make up. Give each other a JoinLink hug! :)

Dr. Video

2005-04-21 16:46:24 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
I may not run a BBS anymore (and yes, I still have one set up, just not
connected to the internet or any phone lines) but I'm still passionate about
CNet and my CNet Amiga development experience. Even Knight can't destroy
that. :)

That is awesome. It is very important that someone stays knowledgeable
about the code base. We have Metal Mage and Pinacolada as the current
experts on Image software. We don't really have anyone doing mods for
Centipede except Cyberjank, who recently upgraded WAGS BBS Lister to
support telnet addresses.

I may have to re-write the Centipede Network HUB program unless we can
retrieve it from someone, as there are several Centipede boards now and
we all want to network a sub or two.

Anyway, kudos for keeping Cnet alive! (care to resurrect Cnet 64/128? It
died a miserable death with v7.0 I think)

--
ADDiXiON BBS - telnet://addixion.hopto.org
DrivenOnline.org BBS HQ (lots of NTSC demos/tools/bbs software!)
A *REAL* Commodore 128 Bulletin Board System

Ryan

2005-04-21 17:01:12 UTC

Post by Dr. Video
That is awesome. It is very important that someone stays knowledgeable
about the code base. We have Metal Mage and Pinacolada as the current
experts on Image software. We don't really have anyone doing mods for
Centipede except Cyberjank, who recently upgraded WAGS BBS Lister to
support telnet addresses.

Image... man, that brings back some memories. In they hay day here in
Milwaukee, Image was one of the Top Dogs as far as BBS software went. I
remember spending a LONG time on Dumbo's Flying Circus playing Empire
and such. There was even one Image who somehow had 2 phone lines.

Its amazing what those ol' C-64's can do if you put your mind to it!

Dr. Video

2005-04-21 22:11:47 UTC

Post by Ryan
Image... man, that brings back some memories. In they hay day here in
Milwaukee, Image was one of the Top Dogs as far as BBS software went. I
remember spending a LONG time on Dumbo's Flying Circus playing Empire
and such. There was even one Image who somehow had 2 phone lines.

Yeah we have a pretty active bunch of Empire players on Addixion. Come
join the battle!

--
ADDiXiON BBS - telnet://addixion.hopto.org
DrivenOnline.org BBS HQ (lots of NTSC demos/tools/bbs software!)
A *REAL* Commodore 128 Bulletin Board System

Jim Brain

2005-04-22 03:14:30 UTC

And with BBS Server, tcpser(4j), and tcpcom, it's great to be able to
get the great BBS systems online where we can dial them up without
paying a mint in phone fees.

Jim

--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
***@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!

user

2005-04-21 19:26:06 UTC

Post by Ray A. Akey
Everyone kiss and make up. Give each other a JoinLink hug! :)

I agree as well. No more bickering from me. I hope everyone jumps on THIS
bandwagon!

Sam Gillett

2005-04-20 22:10:41 UTC

"user" wrote ...

Post by Sam Gillett
Why was Tom's post lame? Is _anyone_ other than Black Phantom who posts a
chat night notice lame? Now hear this! Telnet is a _big_ place, and more
than one little group of BBS's do exist in cyberspace.

Because he used the same technique someone else had just used! He could
have waited a bit longer, mentioned a game night, held a contest, etc.
Does not anyone care about orginality anymore? That must be why so many TV
shows look the same.

He made a brief, to the point, announcement. Does someone else have a
copyright on "brief and to the point"? If you think bloated is better, you
must be a Windows programmer. ;-)

--
Best regards,

Sam Gillett

Change is inevitable,
except from vending machines!

user

2005-04-21 03:08:12 UTC

Post by Sam Gillett
He made a brief, to the point, announcement.

That was very similar to someone else's

Post by Sam Gillett
Does someone else have a
copyright on "brief and to the point"?

Nope, but brief and to the point does not mean similar in content.

Oldbitcollector

2005-04-18 18:18:34 UTC

Post by user
You just do not get it. I will try one last time. It is like if a bank
gives away a free vcr with every new account and a week later the bank down
the street starts to give away a free vcr with every new account. It looks
lame.
You need to seperate Tom's action and Black Phantom's action. Black Phantom
was WRONG, Tom was rather lame.

Checking the list at telbbs.com, there are currently currently 15 public
TelBBS systems online as of Video's last count. This is a THIMBLEFULL
compared to what used to be. Why is this bickering neccessary???

There are people who will gravitate to the Zero Network, and others who
will feel at home with Warpzone. One of the things you learn when you
are doing any type of business or service is that there is always enough
work for everyone. Believe me, there are many benefits to this
attitude. (Not to mention it shows maturity!)

I for one support the efforts of ALL of our CBM contributors.

Oldbitcollector

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ElectroPig

2005-04-18 20:25:49 UTC

Post by Oldbitcollector

Agreed. Wholeheartedly!

Post by Oldbitcollector
Oldbitcollector
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Tom

2005-04-14 18:18:53 UTC

I would reply in more detail, but D5 already covered everything nicely.

Thanks for the comments D5!

Thanks,

Tom

d***@propg.com

2005-04-14 09:16:55 UTC

Andrew Alexander wrote: (response found in alt.bbs.amiga.cnet)

Post by Andrew Alexander
Hey jackass! Who posted what when? I posted about the port zero

network

Post by Andrew Alexander
long before you. After I did you posted a similar concept for weekly
chat on your system. So you were way rude first dip wad.
Oh no... I am sorry you were gonna join. I didn't mean to offend you,
please reconsider. I so very much want WorfZone BBS to be our 6th
system. Oh please mercy on the Port Zero Network oh great sysop Tom.
What will the founders of the great joinlink think if I lose a system,
cus a sysop was annoyed at my advertisement. You think I give a shit

Sam Gillett

2005-04-15 04:49:58 UTC